Ep.26 Sexual Happiness Podcast: What's The Stigma Around Male Sex Toys? (with Andy Jones)

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Transcription: Lovehoney Podcast Episode 26

Sammy [00:00:07] Hello! You're listening to the sexual happiness podcast from Lovehoney, where we answer your questions about sex and sex toys. I'm Sammy.

Vicky [00:00:15] I'm Vicky.

Sammy [00:00:15] And this week, we're joined by journalist and broadcaster Andy Jones to answer the question: "What is the stigma around male sex toys?" Hello, Andy.

Andy [00:00:22] Hello.

Sammy [00:00:23] Welcome to the podcast.

Andy [00:00:24] Delighted to be here. Now I've found it.

Sammy [00:00:27] Now you found it?

Andy [00:00:27] I mean the great chamber of dildos that is Love Honey HQ.

Sammy [00:00:31] Yes. So why are you here with us on the podcast today? Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Andy [00:00:37] So I'm going to talk about the stigma of male sex toys.

Sammy [00:00:40] Okay.

Andy [00:00:41] But I'll tell you a little bit about me first. Because you're like, who is this guy? How dare he come on! How dare he fill my ears and talk about male sex toys! So I'm a journalist and broadcaster, which means I write about all kinds of stuff. But principally, I write a lot about sex, dating and relationships. Years ago, I was a normal journalist and my dating life was so disastrous that my editor at the paper at the time said, you should be our male dating columnist. And so I got lots of dates and I would write about them and it was loads and loads of fun. And it was a great way of keeping secret single, because if you write about somebody and say mean things, they never call you again. If you write about them and say something positive, they're like, oh, no, he's way too keen. He's written something about me for one million readers. And then if you don't write about them, that's even worse, cos' it's like "oh my god, how boring a date was I because he didn't even write about me?!" But I kept that up and up, and I wrote lots and lots about sex, dating and relationships. I've covered everything from naked discos, upmarket sex events, the sort of things you see in sort of Eyes Wide Shut. I review all sorts of sex toys. I do consultancy work with dating companies... Basically everything you can name.

Sammy [00:01:50] Nice. Quite a broad range there then?

Andy [00:01:53] A broad range of stuff. But yeah, I find that the more I write about sex, the less I have time to do it. So it's a very refined balance.

Sammy [00:02:01] A student of theory, if not practice.

Andy [00:02:05] Yes.

Sammy [00:02:05] Thank you for coming to be with us all the way from London today, here in sunny Bath. So as you said, we're gonna be talking about the stigma around male sex toys, which is something you've talked about a lot before, I think. And before we do that, though, we have to do our "you can never know enough about sex" section, which is where we each share a fact or something that we have learned about sex during the week. So, Vicky, would you like to kick off with your sex fact?

Vicky [00:02:30] I will indeed. I kind of kept it on the whole male willy theme.

Sammy [00:02:36] Male willy as opposed to female...

Vicky [00:02:36] So what I found... yes as opposed to a female willy... The world record holder of the largest penis in the world since 1999 - Jonah Falcon from New York has a 13 inch member and was usurped recently by Roberta Esquivel Cabrera from Mexico, who came to the game with a whopping 19 inches reaching almost down to his knee.

Andy [00:02:58] Wow. So he didn't even beat him, he beat him by a clear six inches.

Vicky [00:03:03] Yes. But there's a penis dispute going on. Jon - who says he's not bitter at all, has claimed that Roberta is ridiculous, as he used weights to stretch his penis to 19 inches, which meant that it was essentially all foreskin.

Sammy [00:03:17] Right.

Vicky [00:03:18] As um...

Andy [00:03:19] Which is no good to anybody.

Vicky [00:03:20] Well, this is what Jonah's saying. And he's added, "if you can't use it, what good is it?"

Sammy [00:03:30] It's like having a bag of crisps and it's empty half way.

Vicky [00:03:30] And Roberta has responded... "I am famous because I have the biggest penis in the world and I'm happy with my penis. I would like to be in the Guinness Book of Records but they don't recognise this record yet."

Sammy [00:03:42] So my sex fact this week was about dogging. So if anyone who may not be familiar, dogging is the act of having sex outside in public with other people either watching or partaking. And I didn't really understand why it was called dogging to begin with. I thought it must be to do with the position. Like if you're in a car, maybe doggie is just easier or something. But I looked it up and apparently it's called dogging because when people get caught, the most common excuse is "I was walking the dog!"

Andy [00:04:08] Yeah absolutely.

Sammy [00:04:09] I did not know that.

Vicky [00:04:11] The dog ate my... Poor dod. The dog ate my homework... they get blamed for everything.

Andy [00:04:15] Surely you have to bring the dog with you? As part of the ruse.

Sammy [00:04:18] There's like a doggie daycare centre at the front of these dogging sites. So, yeah, it was a short, snappy one. But yeah, I didn't realize that was the etymology of doggie.

Andy [00:04:27] No, it's a fabulous world.

Vicky [00:04:29] It's makes sense actually when you think about it.

Sammy [00:04:30] Yeah it does. Okay. Fantastic. So that kind of brings us onto our main topic, which as we've discussed is 'what is the stigma around male sex toys?' So first off, do you guys think that there is a stigma? And if so, what is it? Why do we think it's there?

Andy [00:04:48] So I've written a lot about male sexual behavior for like big magazines, a lot of Vice, glossy magazines, women's magazines. And I'm always asked about what men think about things and I always have to go to my friends and everywhere, and universally, they all say they've got no interest in male sex toys. So many of my mates, and these are all professional men in London, younger guys who are dating, they're on Tinder. They're having lots of sex. They're wanking a lot. No interest in male sex toys. It's such a sad thing. It's like, why don't you upgrade your wank? You're investing so much into your personal pleasure, by you know, self-love. And then if you just invested sort of £10, £20 on one product, it could be a whole level of pleasure that you've never had before. It takes you away from pornography. I think so many young men are watching pornography when they masturbate, and it's a quick, furtive sort of thing that they do. And then it's gone. But when you use a toy, it's a really sort of meditative, sensory thing where like you're focusing on how you feel, it can give you stronger orgasms, longer orgasms, it can make you lost an awful lot longer in bed. It's a great thing to use together. And I think it's something that a lot of men would try if they felt it was open to them. It's almost like, I think a lot men can't get their head around sort of... They think when they're buying a sex toy they're buying some sort of auxiliary vagina, rather like the Rampant Rabbit moment that women had in the 90s when Samantha on Sex and the City waved the Rampant Rabbit round, and suddenly every woman, everywhere, wanted one. Because it was a stylish, sexy thing - it wasn't a great big, veiny dick. And I think men have yet to have that moment.

Vicky [00:06:31] And that's the thing - being on Sex and City also normalised vibrators for women and stuff. And there's no kind of primetime TV or movies where you have male sex toys.

Andy [00:06:41] We had Jim humping a pie in American Pie didn't we. That was our sex moment wasn't it? We are all sex, sex, sex. And that's basically how male lust is packaged. Because male lust is sort of disgusting. We're told it's sort of disgusting. Women's orgasms are celebrated. You know, they're celebrated on daytime TV, on Loose Women and Good Morning Britain and women having an orgasm is a great thing. It's Harry Met Sally. It's great TV moments. I think the other thing is men's orgasms seem disgusting. You're expelling something. It's something furtive and very sweaty and you expel something and it's disgusting. Whereas women's is sort of an intimate thing where a little ripple happens and a flower blooms. And it's all wonderful. You know, this is how it's packaged. Whereas...

Sammy [00:07:25] And then Enya comes in in the background.

Vicky [00:07:27] Yeah. Always.

Andy [00:07:28] And men are sort of... we're told to be lusty and sort of find this attractive, and this attractive and this attractive. And there's so much about male titillation. But the male orgasm, which is what ultimately that's all about, is completely off limits. And I think if we talked about how men have better orgasms, I think that they behave better towards women.

Vicky [00:07:50] Guys can have multiple orgasms.

Andy [00:07:50] Yeah, exactly. And I think if they become more intuitive and sensitive about their own bodies, they'd perhaps be a bit more respectful and sensitive about women's bodies.

Vicky [00:07:59] And then can you imagine with age, to be more intuitive about your body. It's kind of not... There's still this like macho society. Marketing needs to change and instead of it being called masturbating, it needs to sex training or something. You know, kind of with, you know, like face cream is now 'windshield' and...

Andy [00:08:15] Yeah. Why?

Vicky [00:08:17] With a sharks fin or something.

Andy [00:08:19] If you went into a pub, you know, obviously with your friends, not complete strangers, and talked to men about what's the strangest thing they've masturbated with, or something like that. They'll be like "I've done that toilet roll hand cream thing" and I'm like, well why why don't you just do it... Why wouldn't you use like a toy that you can then you know, you can wash and then you know, reuse it and you can use it with your partner... Because you can get... The toys are unique and strange now. You can get ones that mimic blowjobs. You can get ones that mimic slow sex. You can get ones that mimic from behind sex, you can get ones that mimic anal sex. You can get ones that mimic all kinds of different things. And they're designed in the same beautiful way that a lot of the really high end women's ones are. You know, a lot of young women, a lot of older women, won't buy the ones that just like a massive dick because, you know, if they're son grabbed you out of the wardrobe or something and it gets exposed, it's horrible. But having this kind of nice cute, pretty thing is nice and men like technology men. All technology is aimed at men and you know, men love wanking, they love technology. Why wouldn't they go this next step? And when I'm sent... So I'm an ambassador for one of the toys I've mentioned earlier and I sent a couple to my mates and they were like, "oh, I've just had this thing arrive. And it looks really weird. I'll try it later." And then they're really, really excited when they start touching it. And it's strange because it feels obviously very different to a hand and different initially to a vagina, but once sort of the latex warms up, it's like, oh, this is really actually quite enjoyable, this is quite nice. And you... Rather than having a quick wank, and you just do it and then you're done and then you're in the shower. It's like, I'm going to make this slow and then you'll learn more about your body.

Vicky [00:10:08] With candles.

Andy [00:10:08] Well no, not candles. But I think the more men learn by slow sex, the better.

Sammy [00:10:14] And I think like you're saying, I'm teaching people that there are different ways to masturbate and different ways to have sex generally. It's like I mean, I always compare sex and food because I love food and sex. But it's like you wouldn't always have McDonald's, would you? You wouldn't always have the quick option. Sometimes you want to go for something a bit more in-depth and with a bit more to it. And that's ultimately a bit more rewarding. And it's the same kind of thing when it comes to sex toys, masturbation or that kind of thing. And do you think... So we've talked about how women are probably more comfortable talking about sex and there are more sex toys out there for women. Like you said, so many more.

Andy [00:10:53] I've sat in sex toy parties and seen the screaming joy of women seeing sex toys and handling them and feeling the sensory touch of them and being excited.

Sammy [00:11:04] Yeah. And women will talk about them with friends or they will, you know...

Vicky [00:11:06] It's just not a taboo subject anymore is it?

Andy [00:11:10] My girlfriend gave one to her hairdresser when she left the country.

Sammy [00:11:12] Really?

Andy [00:11:13] She was like, thanks for cutting my hair.

Sammy [00:11:15] So, yeah, women are obviously much happier about that kind of thing. Do you think that it's easier... When we talk about sex toys for men, we've been talking quite a lot about things like realistic sleeves or non realistic, or TENGA eggs and that kind of thing. Do you think it's easier for men, when they're looking at buying sex toys, to look at something that they can introduce with a partner? Or is it easier for men to look at buying things just for themselves?

Andy [00:11:42] Buy it and just use it on your own to begin with. I think, we all love the idea of using sex toys with a partner, but there becomes the sort of embarrassment of, you know. Does that feel nice? Is that good? Am I doing it right? Is that too much? And I think that's... you just want to know what feels good yourself. And I think if you're going to use a sex toy - and this goes exactly the same for women - before you use it with your fella, or your girlfriends, you're going to want to know what feels good yourself and you want to know what speeds feel good and how much lube to use. And is this too big and does this fit? And exactly the same for guys. You want to know how tight you grip it and how deep do you go and how fast do you use it? And I think it's completely the same. And it's quite a nice thing to do on you own. Let's be honest. And it is typically designed as a solo pursuit.

Sammy [00:12:29] Yeah. True. Well certainly when it comes to the sleeves and things like that, I think you get it would tend to use them on their own. But there's some of them can be used as part of a couple as well.

Andy [00:12:39] Exactly. So you might see a Fleshlight or a sex doll in some cultural reference points, some films and TV, some comedy show. And people think that's what a male sex looks like. When actually, they look very much like...

Vicky [00:12:52] They need to be more sort of, in the media don't they?

Andy [00:12:53] Yeah. They look like sort of very odd, almost like mini little ornaments, I suppose. Rather like female sex toys don't look anything like penis anymore.

Sammy [00:13:04] So we talked a little bit about what some of the issues are when it comes to men being comfortable trying sex toys, discussing sex toys and some about the kind out there. But other than... so we talked about TENGA eggs. We've talked about strokers and sleeves. What other kind of male sex toys are available?

Andy [00:13:25] I mean, if you're interested, it's almost better to just go on the Lovehoney website.

Sammy [00:13:29] Yes. Yes it is!

Andy [00:13:30] Which obviously sounds like a cop out, but they say, you know, exactly what they do on the tin. So there's the blowjob toy that you've got, and it doesn't look like a big comedy mouth with red lips and shiny teeth and a shock of blonde hair. It's just like a black sort of car. It almost looks like one of those mini portable speakers.

Sammy [00:13:51] Yeah, like an Alexa!

Andy [00:13:53] It looks like one of those Apple iPod speakers that you take on a picnic or something. And you basically, you know, you put your penis in it and it feels like a blowjob. You know, it has changes in... I think it has changes in temperature. And it matches the sort of the rhythm of the mouth and the tightness of the lips and stuff like that. But there's all sorts of things, there's things with like little dots on, these things with like jagged... Not jagged, that's the wrong word! There's things with hardened edges on... ribs is the word I'm looking for. I suppose you pick what you like and you find what you like. There's an incredible range of women's toys. We're trying the Womanizer at the moment.

Sammy [00:14:40] Yeah. So the Womanizer has the Pleasure Air Technology thing, which is basically where it has... It looks like an air thermometer, doesn't it? It's got a kind of nozzle that goes around the clitoris and instead of vibrating, it kind of sucks and pulses and it's massively popular.

Andy [00:14:53] It mimics oral sex doesn it, for women. So this basically the blowjob cup mimics. oral sex for men. And so that can really help a relationship. And you go, how can that possibly help a relationship? A lot of women quite rightly, maybe don't like oral sex. A lot of guys don't like giving oral sex to their female partner or to their male partner. And you can just be like, do you know what, you can have this, and then I never have to do it. It's great!

Sammy [00:15:18] I think also there's... We're talking about male sex toys and sex toys really aren't necessarily gendered unless it's 'this is to put a penis and this is to put on a vagina or in a vagina. But you're not just limited to stuff in the male sex toy category, so, you know, a lot of people like nipple play, we've got loads of nipple toys. They can be used for men as well. Butt plugs - everyone's got a bum. They're universal. You don't just have to stick to that idea of what a male sex toy should be. Look around. And as long as you find that it's safe to use on the body part that you want to use it on, you can just give it a go.

Andy [00:15:52] Yeah.

Sammy [00:15:53] A lot of people don't necessarily take that into consideration.

Andy [00:15:54] A lot of the sort of body massagers that you can buy. Phillips had a great one a few years ago that I had. And you could use it... It's just a massager that you can put on the body, but it was also designed sexually. They were open about this in marketing, that it was still a sex toy product that you could use for men and for women wand.

Vicky [00:16:12] Like a wand?

Andy [00:16:12] Yeah. It was sort of like a purple wand. And you could... it clips into different positions and you can use it on your scrotum. You can use it on, you know... they don't have as many sensory areas as women do but... erogenous zones as women do. But, you know, putting that on your body feels really nice while you're having sex or while your... As a prelude to having sex.

Sammy [00:16:31] Yeah. And not everything has to be designed for an orgasm necessarily. Cause sex isn't just about an orgasm. It's just about what feels good.

Andy [00:16:39] That's the big thing that I've always said. You know, I did a talk for a largely female audience about male sex toys as part of a wider thing we were doing. And they were all like, "oh, it's going to be this creepy thing about plastic vaginas and blow up dolls and stuff." And I said, well, actually, it's this thing of men haven't been told to love their bodies really. They haven't been told about this moment of learning about the vagina in the same way women do, and penis is this thing you flop around and take the mickey out of it if it's too small or it's ugly and it's smelly and weird looking. And before you can really love and be really good at sex with someone else, I think you really need to know inside out what you like because you learn that touching slow feels really nice rather than, you know, touching fast and being too strong or being too grabby. And when you learn slow touch on yourself, you become you know, in that sort of tantric thing of feeling what feels nice without it even having to lead to an orgasm. That's a really wonderful thing to bring to another partner. Because a lot of guys - they know how to get themselves off because they get themselves off really quickly. And when they can't get you off within sort of five minutes, they get really frustrated and angry with you and what's wrong with you? Why can't we come together and all this sort of thing? And I think when when guys learn that they can extend the pleasure, they then imagine sex as a significantly longer act than it previously has been.

Vicky [00:18:05] It's like re-educating yourself and looking at Lovehoney and stuff, or podcasts and we have blogs and we have stuff that shows you what everyone is looking at. And you don't feel that you are some kind of strange being wanting to use it and wanted to use a sex toy.

Andy [00:18:22] And the other thing I'd say is, God willing, we're all gonna be alive for about 80 odd years and are going to be sexually active for decades and decades and decades. You might have sex with the same person for decades and decades and decades. Why wouldn't you? I mean, you might be great and every orgasm might be like exploding stars of joy. But why wouldn't you spend a tenner, 20 quid on trying something and going, do you know what, we really like that. Or actually, no, that wasn't for us. And what have you lost? Because so many people spend hundreds of pounds going out on dates. You know, let's go out for dinner... We need to bring the magic back, let's go to the cinema. We need to get the magic back, let's go on a weekend away and like sometimes just by a couple of little toys will bring a change in something and it makes you think about different layers of pleasure, different ways that you can touch yourself rather than just right. I can do this. This gets me off this. Gets you off. Right. And that's how relationships die sadly, isn't it?

Sammy [00:19:19] Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a big part of it. When you lose the intimacy, whether that is in the form of sex or whether it's intimacy on another level...

Vicky [00:19:25] And the excitement as well.

Sammy [00:19:26] And the excitement. Yeah. Because if it's not fun, why are you doing it? So how do you think people listening and how can we break the taboos around male sex toys? What can we take from this podcast into our real lives to help people become more comfortable talking about it and even buying them and trying them?

Andy [00:19:47] Billion dollar question, isn't it? I think just talking. I was quite open with all my mates that I was doing this podcast and once I had... I sent a couple to my mates to try, these different sort of products, which felt quite weird sending, you know, sending a delivery wank to somebody. But, you know, women do this kind of thing. And they're asking me what they feel like, and some of them have got wives with kids and they aren't necessarily having a lot of sex right now. They've got new babies and stuff.

Vicky [00:20:19] Ideal time to try them...

Andy [00:20:21] And put it this way, the mums were very keen for the men to have them. New mums were like "leave me alone". You'll getting whatever this weird thing Jones's wanting to send out. And I sent them and they love them. They were like, I've broken it already, can I have another one? You're supposed to use them quite slowly. And I think a lot of the guys were like "this feels nice. Oh God she's coming up the stairs. Oh, God." Yeah. And then they broke it. And then others are sort of... So with the eggs, right. So talking about the TENGA Egg. It's not actually an egg that you put up your bum and you have similar products as well don't you? You know, you've got an amazing range of eggs. It's a plastic egg, like a kinder egg. The sex element is nothing to do with the egg. It's just a container or packaging. You open the egg and inside it's got almost what I'd describe as like a sort of big jelly thimble that has different sensory nodes on it. And you put it on - it comes with some lube. And I love the way all of your toys come with lube.

Vicky [00:21:19] Everything needs lube.

Andy [00:21:21] You just put it on your champ and move it up and down. And some of them are like that, others go all the way down the shaft. And it's you know, I've got... And then there's other ones that are sort of cups that you... are kind of single use that you use and throw away, you know. There's something a bit grim about that. I got to put it in recycling!

Sammy [00:21:42] Just run out to the back and be like, where do you want this?!

Andy [00:21:45] How much of it is recyclable? I was trying to take it apart and I thought this is ridiculous, just bin it for godsake, you know.

Sammy [00:21:53] Those are quite good for someone who has never tried something before and wants to give it a go. Whereas when you know that you really like it, then you can start investing in the longer term, longer lasting stuff.

Andy [00:22:01] Yeah you try it and you're like 'oh my God.' It feels really strange and cold and then it starts to warm up and you're like, oh God, this is amazing. I don't need to talk to ten women on Tinder tonight! And it's great. And then others are sort of more longer lasting where they're like a sort of like a latex sock. That's longer. And then you can see it comes on its own. Right. The ones like the one I've got sent comes its own plastic stand so it can sort of dry out. You pushed it and you turn it into a. Yeah. You turn inside out to use it and then you put it back on. You don't display. It obviously goes in the same place with your other sex toys. But yeah that's also a good product. And it's sensory and it feels induglent and it's also entirely different - I'm not saying it was better or worse than in sex -with a female partner or whatever,- but it feels different and it mimics a lot of the similar things. So some of them, you know, the tighter ones mimic oral sex and then some of the sort of more so texturised one's are more like vaginal sex. And so you can sort of pick and choose... Girlfriends away, what do I fancy?

Sammy [00:23:13] Got a smorgasbord of sex toys.

Vicky [00:23:16] Question of the week this week from the forum is "does anyone know where I can get some cream to use before a spanking to enhance the spanking?"

Andy [00:23:25] Not Sudocrem, I assume.

Sammy [00:23:28] Possibly not.

Vicky [00:23:29] If there's nappy rash involved then possibly...

Sammy [00:23:30] That's more for the aftercare end of it. After the spanking I guess. I suppose to enhance it... The word enhance makes me think maybe you want to increase sensation...

Andy [00:23:39] Rather than noise. You don't want a louder smacking sound. Vaseline might be quite good to make it sound a bit wetter and shinier.

Vicky [00:23:47] What does shiny sound like?!

Andy [00:23:47] I don't know, like a sort of (makes clapping sound)... I don't know.

Vicky [00:23:52] Clapping yeah.

Andy [00:23:55] What I'd suggest is there's a lot of lubes that have tingle with them and... we've all used them and they tingle on your willy, they tingle on your bits and they're great. And maybe especially if you've already sort of tenderised the skin a little bit, maybe if you added a little bit of that to the buttocks, that'll be quite a good sensation enhancer.

Vicky [00:24:17] Marinade them in some tingling lube.

Sammy [00:24:21] Yeah. Anything that's going to increase in circulation... Tingle lube's great. Warming lube, cooling lube. Also orgasm gels or orgasm enhancers which are kind of pitched as a thing for women mainly because use them on the clitoris. They basically make it swell. Make it more sensitive, increase circulation. But there's no reason you can't use them on other areas of your body, so you could use those if you wanted a more sensory and intense kind of response on the person, I think. Okay, so that brings us to the end of the show this week. But to say thank you for listening, we're giving you 15 percent off absolutely anything that you want to buy at Lovehoney. To claim your discount, just check out the links in the episode description and you'll be taken to the website nearest to you in the world.

Vicky [00:25:03] If you've enjoyed this week's episode, don't forget to give us a rating you think we deserve. Maybe tell your friends and drop us a review. We'd love to know what you think.

Sammy [00:25:11] You can also follow Lovehoney on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Follow us on YouTube where we're LovehoneyTV. Or if you have any questions, you can get in touch by e-mailing us at podcast@lovehoney.com. And Andy, if people want to check out your stuff, where can they find you?

Andy [00:25:25] I'm building website... So I've got two websites. www.andyjones.co.uk and www.andyjonesdating.co.uk. And I've got a Twitter @AndyJoneswrites and I'd love to hear your feedback.

Sammy [00:25:43] Yes. Yes. Please get in touch. So thank you for coming on the show with us and talking about Fleshlights, TENGA eggs and all that kind of thing today Andy, it's been a pleasure having you here.

Andy [00:25:51] It's been a pleasure being here. It's been a pleasure being in a safe space talking about male sex toys.

Sammy [00:25:57] And not down the pub.

Andy [00:25:58] And not down the pub, talking to strangers about why they need a toy.

Sammy [00:26:03] Yeah, exactly. But yeah, if you have any questions for Andy, please do get in touch or any questions for Vicky or myself. So don't forget to come back next week when we'll have a brand new episode for you. Thanks for listening. Bye!